trinketsss:

The Hunger Games 30 Day Challenge
↳ Day 4 » Your favourite career tribute: Glimmer

Yes, Caesar, I am very prepared.

“Shes beautiful or even downright sexy, which makes her arrogant, too arrogant. She can’t even hold her bow the right way.”

Obviously they’re pretty good. They win it almost every year.

foxingfaces:

Devils, demons..

agentconrad:

“In a moment, he will realize it’s futile, she can’t be saved.” 

lucrezias-sparklyhairnet:

dance-at-bougival:

awibee:

crazyintheeast:

afigureofspeech:

hawtornes:

thg meme | eight scenes [3/8] » Clove’s death

#disclaimer: clove/cato/glimmer/marvel/careers in general are not good people #but if you cheered at these parts or rejoiced in their deaths in any way then You Are Doing It Wrong #yes these are people who committed wholeheartedly to the idea that the capitol sells them #clove is a child killer but she is also a child killer and a child in a system that popularizes that concept #that sells it out like candy; that wraps it up in pretty packages #that makes it okay and her greatest tragedy is that she lived in this system #that she bought into this system through sheer greed and desire to live and desire for glory #not all of us are heroes - not all of us are meant to bring about a revolution #some people (MOST people even) just want to survive #and they’re willing to do anything to live on. even cater to the system that sees them as meat #in this sense clove is as much a victim as any of the others killed in the hunger games #she’s a sheep pretending to be a wolf #and she never understood - not like katniss. not like peeta. not even like cato - that she was a piece on the chessboard all along #she died an insignificant number - a child murdered by the same system that she murdered for #so if you cheered with the careers died #then you need to reevaluate your life choices basically

Nope. It doesn’t matter how you got there you always have a choice. If you choose to be a monster you are one. And I have no problems cheering over the death of monsters. If I ever become one I would have no problem with people cheering my death

That’s the Nuremberg defence. “We were just following orders”.

But you should never cheer at the death of someone.

yeah except the difference between clove/careers and the grown up nazis who followed hitler is that clove is a child. a better example would be comparing clove and the careers to the hitler youth, which if my memory serves was operational from 1922-45, meaning it was operational for 23 years (altho attendance wasn’t compulsory until 1935, i think) and all the kids in it had to been at least ten years old. that’s one generation.

now times that by three, bordering on four - three, four generations and clove is probably fifteen at this stage. meaning that the system that she killed for and lived her whole life within would have existed for at least seventy five years, outdating her for sixty, not including the time it took for the capitol to win the war. she grew up in a district that glorified childkilling, that had never seen the cruelty of the capitol that katniss has seen simply because they were one of the ‘favourites’. she had never met gale and his anti-war sentiments. she had never seen children starve in the streets. she had only ever seen her academy and her trainers and the victors of her district, and this is what she would have known all her life. you don’t always have a choice when it comes to a system this old and pervasive - you need a catalyst at the very least, and clove has never had a catalyst. i’m not saying that clove is justifiable or likeable or a good or even decent person but she is sympathetic, and she is a victim even though she doesn’t know it. being a victim and being innocent isn’t mutually exclusive, and choice isn’t something that everyone has.

Everything Malinna says is correct.

I would also like to bring back my cultural relativism thing that I always end up swanning about because it changed mah lahf, blahblahblahblah.

Cultural relativism means, essentially, that we must judge someone within another culture through their culture’s standards.  Sad, but true.  If Clove was an Ethiopian child soldier, I doubt that any of the above posters would be bitching about how “she had a choice she didn’t have to be a monster” and the Nuremberg defense, which btw, is not really relevant here because she wasn’t even following orders…? There were no specific orders given. She was set up from birth.

I wish that we’d been told more about districts 1 and 2.  How they picked their careers, I mean.  Yes, the careers ending up volunteering in the end.  But what happened beforehand?  I imagine that, as often happens in these sorts of societies, it was a sort of Spartan upbringing.  The best candidates were likely isolated and taken from their parents (if willingly on the parents’ parts; and think about that—these kids likely had parents raised in the same atmosphere, parents would wanted their kids to fight and to win) and trained to be killers from a young age.  Clove is quite young.  So is Cato.  You don’t get to be that good a killer—and in Clove’s case that good with knives—without years and years of practice.  Just like Katniss with her bow, Clove has practiced and practiced and practiced because she had to.

As for her becoming a monster…  Well, yeah.  That hearkens back to the Spartan upbringing.  You are a better killer if you don’t feel sympathy for your victims.  You’re an great killer if you take pleasure in their deaths.  Frankly, it’s more of a motivator.  I really, really doubt that an entire group of kids (Cato, Clove, Marvel, Glimmer) just happened to be born monsters at around the same time in the same places.  They were shaped into what they are today.

So, wait?  How does that take away Clove’s “choice” to become a monster?  This chick is raised with the mindset that you either die breaking your back for the capitol, rich after winning the Games… or, hey, you die trying.  If she didn’t take pleasure in those kills, she wouldn’t be successful.

Just as, I maintain, the average soldier wouldn’t be successful in the Games, for all his training.  He would break down.  He would lose his mind, killing innocent children.  That’s why certain forces and certain armies are trained with the mindset that they’re doing this for some glorious purpose/to protect those they love from immediate danger.  You have to give them a goal; and because they are 18 before they begin training, this goal often eventually wears away.  Clove was raised on this from birth.

Katniss shut down, hid often, and won.  You didn’t see her crying over any deaths but Rue’s.  She didn’t really feel them—all of these kids were dying, and she cries over one.  Yet we understand her, but not Clove.

Not saying that Clove’s a good person.  But she is most definitely a victim, and I side-eye anyone who cheered over any one of the careers dying.  Hi, you missed the entire point of the novel—they were all victims—bye.)

Also, I feel that we can effectively say that this girl’s brain is broken.  So, yeah, Nuremberg defense might not hold up there.

Enobaria looks to be about thirty and all I can remember about her is that, in hand-to-hand combat, she killed one tribute by ripping open his throat with her teeth.

“go ahead, shoot. i’m already dead… i always was, wasn’t i?”

“They seem polite but cool and I spend the whole time thinking about how I killed both the tributes from their district, Glimmer and Marvel, last year, and they probably knew them and might have been their mentors.”

the hunger games → last words

Go on shoot, then we’d both go down and you’d win. Go on, I’m dead anyway. I didn’t know that until now.

“We’re going to kill you. Just like we did with your pathetic little ally…what was her name? Rue? Well first Rue, then you, and I think we’ll let nature take care of Lover Boy. How does that sound?”